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Post by lifeofriley on Feb 2, 2011 13:52:44 GMT
Thanks,
I got two different types of sausage today and did a very un scientific test of one piece of each in each hand. I swapped the samples around and tested him out and he consistently chose mattesons smoked pork.
I'll try that tonight.
Rob.
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Post by lifeofriley on Feb 12, 2011 10:25:10 GMT
Just a quick update on Riley. As you may know we've had a few problems with Riley's behaviour on the lead. He's not a puller and walks along beautifully but is aggressive towards other dogs, This has unsurprisingly escalated as we have become more tense.
We saw a dog behaviourist for the second time yesterday. The first encounter was at our house where he behaved very well (typical makes you look rather silly!) and only growled at one of her dogs when they were all in the kitchen together. We worked on some of the things she pointed out over the next fortnight with mixed results.
Yesterday we visited her pack at her headquarters and Riley met several of her dogs on the lead walking past as would occur during a walk. Fortunately he reacted this time so she could see what was happening. It seems that he doesn't really know how to meet dogs and his initial reaction is to engage the other dog by sight and avoid the smelling stage and this is seen as aggression and it all escalates.
We are working on controlling this initial greeting by drawing his attention away from the other dogs and to just keep moving on by. This has varying results often to do with the behaviour of the others concerned (both dogs and humans!) the visit ended with him standing in her enclosure and interacting with her pack which was wonderful to see and gives us hope that we can overcome this problem. We know that it's as much to do with our reaction as his. Finally we let him run free in her huge garden and it was fantastic to see him at speed. I've got some photos being sent to me so as soon as I get them I'll post some here.
All in all she thinks he's a super, friendly, relaxed dog and that we will sort this though it may take some time. She has a large field in the process of being fenced off for training, Flyball and agility which we will start to use to improve his recall. She's based near Wokingham which is a bit of a trek for me but worth it for peace of mind when we first let him off lead.
As for this mornings walk. We went out with a friend who has the most laid back Newfoundland which we have walked with before. One little growl then they were fine. We probably got past half the dogs we met which is a massive improvement, so pretty good. I still cant see a real pattern other than those that walk towards us as opposed to those that cross our path or come up behind us get the most hostile reaction, which ties in with the sight theory.
I'll post those pictures and let you know how things progress.
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Post by Mimsmum on Feb 12, 2011 12:43:50 GMT
Hi Rob, Very similar behavioural pattern to our Milo. But Milo was always fine off lead greeting other dogs. Michael began a routine of walking the two male dogs we have alongside each other along the cycleways and so that they greeted lots of dogs coming towards them. Tag doesn't usually kick off at other dogs and Milo has gradually learnt that you just meet and greet and walk on by. We still have the occassional kick-off and it is mainly when the dog coming the other way is eyeballing Milo. It is a lack of socialization and not knowing what is expected of him. And you are right, they feel all our tensions down the lead. Brilliant update Rob. If you need a couple more sessions I think the Rescue can foot the invoice.
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Post by lifeofriley on Feb 12, 2011 13:01:55 GMT
Thanks Jenny,
I'll keep you informed of what's happening. I'm sure walking with Murphy the Newfoundland does help. I'm also looking forward to the SLR walk next weekend as I'm sure feedback from other Lurcher owners will help and I'm sure Mark and Donna will give us much needed support.
It's a great help just to read about other people experiences both good and bad.
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Post by vickiemily on Feb 12, 2011 14:24:14 GMT
very best of luck with Riley's behavioral sessions , it sounds like you are already making good progress with him ;D , and will get there in the end, enjoy the SLR walk
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Post by Wipuki on Feb 12, 2011 18:22:19 GMT
Thanks Jenny, I'll keep you informed of what's happening. I'm sure walking with Murphy the Newfoundland does help. I'm also looking forward to the SLR walk next weekend as I'm sure feedback from other Lurcher owners will help and I'm sure Mark and Donna will give us much needed support. It's a great help just to read about other people experiences both good and bad. We're here anytime you need us Rob. Sighthounds do sometimes suffer from this sort of behaviour with other dogs - the clue being in the name 'Sighthound'. They do (unlike other dogs) tend to use their eyes first. The other thing, of course is that, quite often other dogs are 'rude' in dog body language and Riley's not the sort to tolerate rudeness - he's generally a very well behaved, and well balanced dog. Having said all the above, it's a bit speculative as he never showed the behaviour here, so we haven't seen it for ourselves. I shall certainly be curious next Sunday. Really looking forward to it btw.
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Post by lifeofriley on Feb 13, 2011 8:27:37 GMT
Hey Donna,
You and Mark have already been a great help on the phone. My post was all about the walk.
You're quite right about rude dogs. The pack of 4 running offf lead that I meet on a regular basis always run straight up to and into Riley's face. I'd rather he didn't react so much at this point but they do deserve a telling off. (and the owner isn't too bothered!)... Says it all really.
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Post by lifeofriley on Mar 8, 2011 17:21:54 GMT
Just thought I'd give an update on Riley. As those of you who've read his threads know we've got some problems on the lead. We've seen one behaviourist a couple of times who helped a bit but probably us more than Riley so this Friday we're off on a roadtrip up to Buxton in the Peak District to have a one on one with Jim Greenwood. This will be Friday afternoon. Then we have all day Saturday to see how it goes before we have a socialisation class with Jim and other dogs on Sunday morning. So fingers crossed we can start to make some real progress. We've had some real help from Jenny and the MaD House. Lots of advice and help from Jenny and the MaDs lent us their enclosed field and a stunt dog in the shape of Kasa which gave Riley the opportunity to get a great run off lead. He had a little nip at Kasa at one point mid run but was soon put in his place by the feisty girl who barely broke her stride. Then the following week a walk up at Newlands Corner gave them the opportunity to see how he reacts to other dogs that are not Lurchers. Donna had the privelidge of seeing him kick off at close quarters as she walked him for a while but a long session of sitting, chatting and drinking coffee gave us the opportunity to see his reaction to various dogs and try various calming measures. We're beginning to think he has two types of "Kick off". One is aggressive towards dogs he sees as rude (ie. tail up) and the other is wanting to play and getting more aggressive when he's stopped from doing so. There is a distinct difference in the tone of his bark but his "play" mode is still too in your face to allow him to get too close without close supervision. We're now letting him off the lead when there are no other dogs around in a secure field on some National Trust land. His recall is ok. Pretty good 70% of the time but iffy after that. It's not that he doesn't hear just that he decides to come back when he wants to so we're working on treats and fuss every time he returns. I'm also starting more obedience training as regards sitting, waiting and trying to get him to understand fetching toys and balls. We're tring him out at various cafe type locations as it takes the difficulty of the walking out of the equation and allows us to focus on showing him there is nothing to worry about when other dogs are around, we are however muzzling him on the lead now, more for our protection than others as he can catch you as he gets all stroppy and we're trying to calm him. The muzzle is also handy as we've found that putting the flat of your hand onto the top of his muzzle and gently pushing down calms him. If we hold him gently like this until his ears flatten he is then calm again. The time this takes seems to be reducing. Some days are definately better than others, rarely great but occasionally we get him past a few dogs without too much drama. Sometimes this is helped by the good owners that you meet and occasionally ruined by the unthinking/oblivious ones. I've used a Halti in addition to his normal Martingale and it helps but at the moment I'm not using it as some of the calming measures we've started to try are helping and he seems to snap out of his red mist moment a little quicker than he used too. Sorry about the rambling and repetitive nature of this post, I'll post an update after the weekend. Meantime a few photos. New muzzle and collar. Relaxing in the garden. I'm not taking up much room. I love running. Just manged to miss the cameraman.
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Post by Wipuki on Mar 8, 2011 17:59:44 GMT
;D Fantastic update Rob. ;D I'm so glad the nose push is working well. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2011 18:09:38 GMT
Wow - he's a gorgeous looking dog. You are really working hard and putting in so much effort that I'm sure it will pay off.
Good luck this weekend - I hope the weathers good so that you can really enjoy the peak district and the training.
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Post by cathrichardson on Mar 8, 2011 18:24:19 GMT
Great to hear things are getting better for you with Riley Hope you have a wonderful trip My Dad is based in that part of the world and I know it well. Hope the weathers kind to you and you get to enjoy a decent pint or two
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Post by Romi on Mar 8, 2011 18:47:49 GMT
Good luck with Riley this weekend. He is one handsome boy.
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Post by elmersmum on Mar 8, 2011 20:40:59 GMT
What a brilliant update on your lovely boy, Riley. You have worked hard with him and Riley is an intelligent hound who is willing and keen to please you. Please bear in mind, however, that he is also part Saluki who are known for their independence when it comes to responding to "recall," which usually shows in "selective deafness!" They DO come back (eventually!) but always in their own time! ;D Look at my avatar on the left: I have one of these!!! ;D Have fun with him! He is one gorgeous gorgeous hound! Enjoy your trip to the Peak District over the weekend. Look forward to your next update! Viviane. X
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Post by aijee on Mar 8, 2011 21:02:12 GMT
FAB pics of the handsome Riley ;D I SO hope that your weekend in the Peak district with Jim Greenwood will help you understand more of what is happening with Riley in his interactions with other dogs and help you find a fruitful way forward. Having that degree of unpredictability when you are out and about with Riley must make walks incredibly stressful for you all. Hope too that you get some time/space to enjoy the beautiful surroundings Audrey x
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Post by Fran on Mar 9, 2011 11:57:26 GMT
Hope you have a really good & educational weekend & Jim Greenwood has some good ideas to help Great pics of the lovely boy
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Post by missysmum on Mar 9, 2011 13:26:33 GMT
Lovely photos, good luck with the visit. We empathise with you as our latest, Boris the Whippet, does very similar to Riley in similar situations and like you we are seeing a behaviourist! Be interested to hear what Jim has to say.
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Post by lifeofriley on Mar 13, 2011 19:30:25 GMT
Well we've just got back from a weekend in the Peak District and two sessions with Jim Greenwood.
It all started on friday afternoon and a one on one session. A short chat with Jim where he showed us two things.,"scrunching" the back of his neck to show him we're in charge and rubbing his loin area with your hand or knee as a comforter.
We walked him past one of Jim's Lurchers and there was little reaction as I'd expect but then we got reaction with a poor old ladies Lab, Swans and then a couple of JR's which the owners allowed to be stunt dogs for a couple of passes once we explained what was going on.
Jim showed us what he wanted us to do. Once we all saw the signal that he was going to get aggressive which in Riley's case is both ears straight up. We give a short sharp jerk on the lead (not a pull), If the ears go again we repeat. A third raise of the ears and the jerk is followed by jumping round in front of him, gaining eye contact and moving towards him causing him to shrink back until he calms and realising we are in charge. This apparently is mimicing natural pack behaviour and telling him he will get us bitten if he doesn't behave.
We were about to go in search of more dogs to torment when we passed the local horticultural offices and their Spaniel and a Setter came rushing out into a small fenced off garden area and barked at us. This was perfect testing for Riley and with curious owners looking on (after an explanation) we continued to use them to test out our newly learned skills. We also did work with a slip lead.
Saturday was spent out walking and trying to find dogs for test runs. There never seem to be many when you want them but we found a few and though by no means perfect there was some improvement. We certainly dont get it right all the time and need to get onto him early enough to have an effect. Later in the evening we got him face to face with a JR in the pub we were staying in and after a little growl they spent 15 minute within a few feet of each other.
Sunday was a group session in Chesterfield with Jim, one of his helpers and 5 other Lurchers all with problems from being scared of men to lead aggression. There was also a stunt JR. We started with weaving in and out of each other to see reaction, walking past in close proximity, checking different behaviour when on a loose or tight lead and more. All finished off with pairing dogs up for a run together. These pairs weren't aimed at those that would necessarily get on but often to provide a reaction. All dogs were muzzled. Riley made great friends with a big bull Lurcher and they had a great time and Riley was pawing at him to play before and after their run. Great to see.
If anyone want more info' please pm me or raise question here and I'll try to answer them but Riley's body language is very different today than Friday (he was so happy when he walked past a dog which barked at him and didn't react he jumped up and skipped around looking at me as if to say it was him not me!) , however we will find out more over the next few weeks as we put everything into practice. We have Jim's contact details and an invitation to contact him with problems and for back up.
I dont think for one minute that we have solved this but certainly feel better equiped to move forward and am confident that things will be better.
I'll let you know how things progress.
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Post by Fran on Mar 13, 2011 19:37:13 GMT
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Post by starhounds on Mar 13, 2011 19:39:43 GMT
Just read through this thread and Rileys reaction after last week end. It sounds as though he has realised that you are the pack leaders and he can relax and follow your lead and trust your decisions. If you can maintain that you've got it cracked!!! There are bound to be set backs but WTG!!!! Well done for all your hard work.
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Post by lifeofriley on Mar 13, 2011 19:47:35 GMT
Thanks for all the messages sent on this thread.
I'd better just add that Jim obviously looks at all his cases individually and people we met today with similar problems have been given different ways of coping with them.
This is what we've been given for Riley and the way Jim sees it.
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